Spanish Real Estate forum - Spanish property - Estate agentsSpanish Real Estate forum - Spanish property - Estate agents

Richie · 10-11-2008, 06:11 PM

I wrote a while ago about the FBEAS or Federation of British Estate Agents in Spain, I thought it was a great idea and something that many estate agents should look to join. Many estate agents are part of this "federation" and many swear by it.

However, this year we had a new member sign up and started publicly slagging off the FBEAS - so instead of getting caught in something that was nothing to do with me or the forum, I quickly moved to stop his comments from being published on the forum!

Anyway, it looks like this guy has taken it forward, bearing in mind I banned him back in April or May:

From almerimarlife.com...

First posted on the 15th August, but reposted as it has received some interesting comments and exchange of views!

With all the 'bad press' that the overselling of property by (primarily) UK Estate Agents has received recently I was (initially) pleased to come across something called the Federation of British Estate Agents in Spain as my initial impression was that this must be good news.

After all it is avery official looking logo, and implies credibility, trustworthiness etc etc. Indeed it makes a rather impressive statement to support this view:

The only professional body dedicated solely to British Estate Agents in Spain, the professional body intent on raising the standard of service in real estate practice offered to the General Public.

It would appear though that the 'Federation' is nothing more than a self appointed membership scheme. As I understand it, in Spain you must register as a Federation and display your registration details on the web site, which as you will see from the link above they aren’t doing!

The site does have a rather intriguing BRIRES S.L in the footer which would tend to indicate that it is nothing more than a company …… in fact it is a Spanish Real Estate Company!!!

I am calling this one!!! A Spanish Real Estate Company passing itself off as a Federation Of British Estate Agents ……….. avoid at all costs!!!!!!

Article posted after reading several sites including David Jackson’s

Bill Peterkin Says:
August 21st, 2008 at 5:23 pm Quote
Dear Sirs,

With reference to your article on your website please see below my comments in reply (defence).

Yes we are a commercial Company, and make no secret of it. This decision was taken at the outset to ensure continuity for the Federation during it´s infancy. We are entirely self regulating.

At the outset it took more than 12 months to set the Federation in motion, with a considerable amount of input from British Estate Agents and members of the public who had purchased properties here. Thr Directors of the Federation have more than 25 years experience in the Real Estate sector here in Spain

We have around 80 Members at present, located throughout Spain, who have all signed and agreed to work to a code of practice which can be seen on our website at Federation of British Estate Agents in Spain Of course it is up to the Members concerned to ensure that they comply but we do have a disciplinary process if needed , although we are not a punitive organisation. We have already intervened in a number of disputes between our Members and clients. I am sure you would agree that an organisation such as ours can only be a benefit to the image of Estate Agents in Spain and of course to the general public from a comfort point of view, knowing that they will be treated correctly by their chosen agent.

More recently we have been working closely with our Members in Andalucia to ensure that they comply with Decreto 218, the law passed by the Junta de Andalucia relating to consumer protection in the real estate sector. This is a complicated piece of legislation and needs to be understood completely by any estate agent operating in Andalucia. It might be a good idea for you to post some information on your website as I am sure that many British Estate agents and certainly members of the public are completely unaware of it´s existence. There have been a number of inspections and fines can be excessive for serious infractions (upto 40,000 Euros). I would be happy to provide information for you if it is of interest.

According to your article you say we are a Spanish Real Estate company. This is completely untrue. We do not sell or market properties at all. We do allow our Members to post properties for sale on the Federation website, but under their own auspices. This may have caused you some confusion.

I am at loss to understand why members of the public or estate agents should beware of us and avoid at all cost. I would have appreciated an opportunity to comment and have some input before the article was published. We are completely transparent and it would have been very straight forward for you to contact us through our our website and allowed us to comment on your article prior to it´s publication. I hope you have the decency to give me the opportunity to reply in full and trust that reply will be posted on your site. I would be more than happy to discuss the matter personally. The office number is 902 024 999 and we are open 9.00am - 3.00pm, Monday to Friday.

I am copying this mail to all our Members for their information.

Regards - Bill Peterkin
Director FBEAS

Read more about this really interesting article and some of the comments that followed!!!!

sharonthompson · 10-11-2008, 08:55 PM

I think the idea of FBEAS is a great one for both agents and people looking for property. Obviously as with any voluntary membership body, everyone has to stick to the code of practice but there are plenty of examples where this works well, especially when it is important to the member to keep their membership.

There are always two sides to a story but if a solution can't be worked out or isn't being followed, such a body will be invaluable in resolving problems before they can escalate.

wood1e · 10-12-2008, 10:00 AM

Many many year ago, groups of people would heard together and create an association, to protect the interests of that profession...Law Society and various other professional bodies.

That tends not to happen these days, due to the law (employment amognst offers) So you have various Chartered Institutes in the UK that are basically limited liability companys.

So although everyone uses the terms such as 'members' they are not really, they are clients. They can only be members if the organisation is an association/mutual and all members own a share in the 'company' like the coop...

All members would then get a dividend or all profits would be returned to the business/association for the greater good of the industry.

So in essence these associations/companys formed to protect the rights of a niche within industry are self serving...

This day and age the only to do that may well be a limited liability company...

If this particular company does appear to represent the best interests their code of conduct matches what the industry norm is and it does have some teeth then the industry will be better for it, by them protecting the 'members' by giving weight to a company in the eyes of the public.

One of the major accounting associations, ask for a payment for accounting software to be reviewed...which appears somewhat crass to me!!! nothing like being biased!!!

What I would conerned about is where do the profits go? Being that a company returns them to shareholders, or is the FBEAS a not-for-profit?

Maybe someone should ask? Are they looking at adding continual education for the industry in Spain?

The long and the short of it is, there possibly is no other way of being a representative body, without being shelf serving (the nature of the beast) and without being a limited company...well maybe a charity. But within Spain this may have been a complete nonsense.

The way to keep any orgainisation at the front of being an industry leader is to keep an eye on it, and use the status 'members' or 'shareholders' have....

Waffle over now...back on with tax return!!!

sharonthompson · 10-12-2008, 01:38 PM

wow, there was a lot of text to read in the linked article.

I perhaps look at these things from a different angle. The success of such a project depends on how important it is to belong to the organisation, whether it be because of a law (ie you must legally) or through consumer buying power (ie you must commercially).

ISO9000 and SAFE are quality schemes in the UK that are optional but if you aren't accredited to them, many companies won't use you. The people running them are commercial organisations but they work because it is in a companies best interest to belong to them.

Let's say for example that I started a company called GEA or Guarenteed Estate Agents and advertised it to an extent where property buyers didn't consider buying a property from an agent who was not in the scheme. Agents would have to abide by the rules of the organisation or face losing accreditation and hence all their customers. GEA would have to uphold it's integrity or it would loose the respect of buyers and cease to exist. Hence the circle is complete (in theory).

If GEA makes a sensible profit, consumers are happy and protected, best practice is maintained and the industry retains it's integrity, whats the problem? Obviously there's a lot of "if's" to pick on.

wood1e · 10-12-2008, 02:46 PM

I think it is better to self regulate, obviously at the moment that probably isn't a good stance...as the banks appear to have not looked after themselves very well, and they are amognst the most heavily regulated in the UK.

If the FBEAS can add weight to the industry then I think it is a good thing. My only problem is when companys refer to members when they clearly cannot be members!!! It may be sumantics, but surplus for members and profit for companys. Therefore are the profits of the company returned to the members/client ie the registered estate agents.

Does FBEAS use the profit for promotion/marketing and education oif its members?

Or do the shareholders divi up each year and bugger of the casinos of Monaco, or put it all on the 3 legged horse at Doncaster?

That would be my only issue....

billsmalltownengland · 10-13-2008, 12:04 PM

Hi,

I would question:

Is it ok to lead people to believe that you are a federation or association when you are nothing of the sort?

I understand that in Spain setting up a federation or association is quite a serious affair, what are the legal implications of pretending to be an organisation of this type when in fact you are not?

Isn’t this sort of like saying you are a charity or for that matter a lawyer or doctor when in fact you are not?

I feel that any organisation of this type should at the very least be transparent, the fact that the “federation of british estate agents in spain” is not a federation at all, is quite worrying.

wood1e · 10-13-2008, 02:54 PM

How about getting someone from the FBEAS stating what their legal status is?

Are they not for profit company limited by gurantee? Or limited company? or an Association/confederation/Union.... ?

I am sure Spanish Law is completly different so businesses/associations have to be set up in different ways. Hence the suggestion, about getting someone from FBEAS, along to answer questions.

And for us to ask questions...

PS billsmalltownengland you might want to contact them direct, if they know they are annoying people, then they will be able to answer and address...

billsmalltownengland · 10-13-2008, 03:54 PM

Sharon is quite right when she says

”ISO9000 and SAFE are quality schemes in the UK that are optional but if you aren't accredited to them, many companies won't use you. The people running them are commercial organisations but they work because it is in a companies best interest to belong to them.”

However I think it important to know that ISO 9000 is a qualification which means that a company has a rigorous quality management system in place which complies with defined and documented requirements.

I understand that a company implements the ISO quality management system, and then it undergoes an audit to check that it complies. ISO certification shows that a company fulfilled or has shown that it is able to fulfil certain consequential requirements, which to my mind is very, very different from becoming a pretend member of a pretend federation.

ISO or International Organization for Standardization is and does what it says on the tin and doesn’t try to make anybody think any differently.

FBEAS or Federation of British Estate Agents in Spain doesn’t seem to be what it says on the tin, and I am at a loss as to what it does actually do.

Colin S · 10-13-2008, 10:27 PM

I would have to agree mostly with Bill.

I've seen a number of these organisations appear and disappear with great frequency in Spain but at the end of the day they will always be self serving no matter how much they may pretend not to be.

I am however a firm believer in government regulation for Estate Agency. We have been derided and ridiculed for years because of a few rascals and I for one would be happy to see a Government run association to ensure good practice.

With organisations such as FBEAS, what if someone complains about an agent, what exactly, apart from kicking the agent out of the organisation, can they do to them. They certainly don't have the right to take them to a court of arbitration whereas a Government department would have that ability and it would ensure that ALL agents would be above board.

sharonthompson · 10-14-2008, 02:14 AM

I agree with almost all the comments. I'm not an expert or even knowledgable. I was just trying to put an outsiders view forward.

I do think something is necessary though. It all depends just how important it is to remain in the organisation, either because of the law or commercial interests.

Regards to all.