Spanish Real Estate forum - Spanish property - Estate agentsSpanish Real Estate forum - Spanish property - Estate agents

Homefinder · 07-05-2007, 12:53 AM

Sahl has raised two different issues here.

I adopt a different attitude towards pricing. I do attempt to ensure that I am offering a property at the same price as my competitors but, if the vendor wants me to list it at a price that might be a ltlle too high, I still accommodate him but then try to get him to reduce.
Then again I am a relative newcomer to the game in the respect that I have just returned to property sales and need all I can get to "pad out" my site.
It is still quite amazing sometimes how quickly a property sells when the vendor reduces to a sensible price.

I think that Sahl would actually profit from a trade association, even if it did not make him better at his job.
Way back I joined a professional association concerned with renting and some significant concessions where obtained by lobbying the authorities as a trade association - mainly the Hacienda, the Tourist council and the local town halls.
A trade association usually carries far more weight than an individual. Firstly, it represents a number of individuals with common interests. Secondly, by combining resourses (financial and knowledge), far more can be achieved.

One could consider that this Forum has a similar function to a trade assoaciation. I cannot say if anything I have written has been of any value but for me, most certainly, exchanging ideas has been useful. I put my website up for review and received a lot of comments. I considered them all and decide to act on some of the suggestions.

Homefinder

Auction House SL · 07-05-2007, 04:36 PM

Interesting comments from Homefinder and Sahl,

I admit we do need a regulatory body. The problem is I cannot see it happening anytime soon. There are many dining room enterprises in Spanish Property Sales, they would not be able or simply choose not to do exams and implement all the processes required especially as it would involve quite high costs with bonding and insurances etc.

I have been in the business here in Spain for 7 years with 7 offices in my heyday, and have tried to present my business on the lines of a UK style property agent. NO descriptions of a flowery nature just facts and not using superlatives to describe my properties, after all everything is relative and cannot be assumed by all.

In Spain, trade associations have no teeth because the law cannot differenciate right from wrong, or more accurately will not do so because of the cronies and old boys act. A rogue developer or large one will always get a friend of a cousin of a judge to allow him to extend the proceedings untill the victim is unable to fund their case and drops it. IÂ´ve seen it happen 1000Â´s of times in CDS and Almeria.

I was in the chamber of trade back in the UK and they too had no teeth. When town planning cut my business and many other members businesses off from the town centre, we were not even allowed to a planning meeting and none of our letters were answered.

On to my original point about valueing, I hate it when a client drops their price, it just means loads more printing and web updating across offices and associate agents offices all to drop by a poxy 3 grand or so. If the valuation was right in the first place, then it would have sold. I donÂ´t need them as wallpaper on my walls and in the window. Afew years ago I had around 100 resale properties on my books and sold 30 a month, we had to pay people to go find replacements every month. Now I have around the same amount and with current market conditions I find it too many of the same old stuff.

I take on about 3-5 new properties a month and refuse around 20-30 every month.

If I have a client for a property I donÂ´t have, I just collaborate with the agent that has what we need. In fact I have considered not having offices at all and put 100% effort and money into finding clients and collaborating for properties. It could save a lot of costs and make life a little easier. My website is now ranking highly on all search engines making this option very tempting to try. Who knows? I may become a dining room table enterprise and not have to worry about passing any tests in the future

Colin S · 07-05-2007, 04:57 PM

With regards to valuing, Hamiltons of London have seven offices on the Northern Costa Blanca and one on the Costa Azahar, all bar one are franchises and run by people who have had little or no experience in the Estate Agency world.

They are taught to value properties and how to give that extra customer service that simply doesnÂ´t seem to exist here but, the most important job for them and this is re-iterated to them time and again is that if you get the valuation right you will sell property, regardless of market conditions.

However, that is sometimes easier said than done. Clients often give us the price they wish to market their property at when a listing is undertaken and 99% of the time it is overvalued, sometimes by a huge amount.

While this annoys me immensley, mainly because when we explain to them the market conditions and why we have valued their property much lower than their given price, most of them agree with us yet, still they want to Â´tryÂ´ at the price they have given us.

If that price is way way over the top then we decline but if we feel that the clients may be receptive to a reduction, mainly due to their reaction when explaining our valuation, we will still list the property.

The reason for this is that we have not refused the property and therefore we have not upset the owners and subsequently our reputation remains good (my own opinion is that if you refuse a property then the owners will talk to their friends and tell them that they donÂ´t like you and word of mouth here is a big part of getting listings) We will, each month, contact every owner and give them details of what movement there is on their property i.e. how many time it has been viewed, how many times we have sent out their details etc. and when they see that their is very little movement, if any, thats the time to talk to them about reductions.

Quite often and, as we are the only agent in the area that actually keeps in touch with their vendors, even if nothing is happening, they will reduce the price bearing in mind the valuation you gave them in the first place, eventually coming down to the right price.

We then find that they donÂ´t even bother telling the other agents, who more than likely have not even bothered speaking to them in six months and hey presto, we have the right priced property and with no competition for it.

Between our eight offices we have over 1400 properties, many of which are overpriced but as time goes by and the regular calls are made most of them will come down in price and Hamiltons keep their good reputation of not upsetting vendors while they tell their friends just how good and friendly we are.

Obviously for properties that are way over priced you have to decline but then these are the sort of vendors that are unlikely to listen to you in the first place.

From experience it is not always a bad thing to have a certain amount of property overpriced, when viewing properties with prospective purchasers, leave the right priced property until last and when they see the difference in prices for what they are getting it will make life much easier to sell.

Homefinder · 07-05-2007, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colin S

With regards to valuing, Hamiltons of London have seven offices on the Northern Costa Blanca and one on the Costa Azahar, all bar one are franchises and run by people who have had little or no experience in the Estate Agency world.

They are taught to value properties and how to give that extra customer service that simply doesnÂ´t seem to exist here but, the most important job for them and this is re-iterated to them time and again is that if you get the valuation right you will sell property, regardless of market conditions.

However, that is sometimes easier said than done. Clients often give us the price they wish to market their property at when a listing is undertaken and 99% of the time it is overvalued, sometimes by a huge amount.

While this annoys me immensley, mainly because when we explain to them the market conditions and why we have valued their property much lower than their given price, most of them agree with us yet, still they want to Â´tryÂ´ at the price they have given us.

If that price is way way over the top then we decline but if we feel that the clients may be receptive to a reduction, mainly due to their reaction when explaining our valuation, we will still list the property.

The reason for this is that we have not refused the property and therefore we have not upset the owners and subsequently our reputation remains good (my own opinion is that if you refuse a property then the owners will talk to their friends and tell them that they donÂ´t like you and word of mouth here is a big part of getting listings) We will, each month, contact every owner and give them details of what movement there is on their property i.e. how many time it has been viewed, how many times we have sent out their details etc. and when they see that their is very little movement, if any, thats the time to talk to them about reductions.

Quite often and, as we are the only agent in the area that actually keeps in touch with their vendors, even if nothing is happening, they will reduce the price bearing in mind the valuation you gave them in the first place, eventually coming down to the right price.

We then find that they donÂ´t even bother telling the other agents, who more than likely have not even bothered speaking to them in six months and hey presto, we have the right priced property and with no competition for it.

Between our eight offices we have over 1400 properties, many of which are overpriced but as time goes by and the regular calls are made most of them will come down in price and Hamiltons keep their good reputation of not upsetting vendors while they tell their friends just how good and friendly we are.

Obviously for properties that are way over priced you have to decline but then these are the sort of vendors that are unlikely to listen to you in the first place.

From experience it is not always a bad thing to have a certain amount of property overpriced, when viewing properties with prospective purchasers, leave the right priced property until last and when they see the difference in prices for what they are getting it will make life much easier to sell.

Right - So ColinS agrees with me and has explained the issue fully.
It would be interesting to hear other members views!

Homefinder

Auction House SL · 07-05-2007, 05:27 PM

Colin - The earlier part of your post is exactly right, regarding vendor behaviour. After seven years at this business I have become less inclined to induldge the greedy vendors though. If they tell someone I have refused their property then I really donÂ´t mind. If that gets me a reputation for being frank and straight or even hard nosed I donÂ´t mind at all.

The problem with indulging them is they then tell all their friends and neighbours that the agent concerned will get the inflated price they ask and before long his cronies all roll up at your door with more over-priced junk, except they want 10 grand more because "they have a better hob and oven."

The other problem of indulence is when you have a property at a good price and a similar one at 20 grand more, then your client asks why the difference, they may conclude that we are not discerning enough and lose their confidence.

Then if you get a buyer for an over-priced property who needs a mortgage, when the valuation comes in at 75% of the selling price the buyer rightfully becomes jittery and backs-out.

My preference is to be seen by buyers as a hard nosed value-for-money estate agent and not too bothered what the vendors think, most of them sell to go back to the UK so they will never use our services again and if their friends were to ask them where to buy a cheap property they will tell them if they are honest to go to the one who values the lowest. (in a real world that should be the case).

I also am a bit of an enviromentalist, I hate tearing up property specs and having to re-print new ones just because some greedy idiot didnÂ´t take my advice in the first place. IÂ´m not risking losing half the worlds rainforests for these people they are not worth it.

Just to put the record straight, I have had many many good and even delightful vendors and they and their type stll walk in the door every day with nice, well-maintained houses at good prices, itÂ´s refreshing and uplifting and I will spend ages chatting to them. They often make the day worthwhile. Just thought I would let you know I donÂ´t snap at everyone

Homefinder · 07-05-2007, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auction House SL

Interesting comments from Homefinder and Sahl,

I admit we do need a regulatory body. The problem is I cannot see it happening anytime soon. There are many dining room enterprises in Spanish Property Sales, they would not be able or simply choose not to do exams and implement all the processes required especially as it would involve quite high costs with bonding and insurances etc.

I have been in the business here in Spain for 7 years with 7 offices in my heyday, and have tried to present my business on the lines of a UK style property agent. NO descriptions of a flowery nature just facts and not using superlatives to describe my properties, after all everything is relative and cannot be assumed by all.

In Spain, trade associations have no teeth because the law cannot differenciate right from wrong, or more accurately will not do so because of the cronies and old boys act. A rogue developer or large one will always get a friend of a cousin of a judge to allow him to extend the proceedings untill the victim is unable to fund their case and drops it. IÂ´ve seen it happen 1000Â´s of times in CDS and Almeria.

I was in the chamber of trade back in the UK and they too had no teeth. When town planning cut my business and many other members businesses off from the town centre, we were not even allowed to a planning meeting and none of our letters were answered.

On to my original point about valueing, I hate it when a client drops their price, it just means loads more printing and web updating across offices and associate agents offices all to drop by a poxy 3 grand or so. If the valuation was right in the first place, then it would have sold. I donÂ´t need them as wallpaper on my walls and in the window. Afew years ago I had around 100 resale properties on my books and sold 30 a month, we had to pay people to go find replacements every month. Now I have around the same amount and with current market conditions I find it too many of the same old stuff.

I take on about 3-5 new properties a month and refuse around 20-30 every month.

If I have a client for a property I donÂ´t have, I just collaborate with the agent that has what we need. In fact I have considered not having offices at all and put 100% effort and money into finding clients and collaborating for properties. It could save a lot of costs and make life a little easier. My website is now ranking highly on all search engines making this option very tempting to try. Who knows? I may become a dining room table enterprise and not have to worry about passing any tests in the future

Auction House obviously has a poor opinion of Spanish law and its enforcement. I have lived and worked here for 36 years and, sadly, I could not jump to Spain's defence.
Perhaps the present crisis will bring a wind of change - we can only hope.

I think that one of the things about Spanish trade associations is who you have on your side. We had (and still have) some real "heavies", mostly Spanish companies (spawned by local property developers) with 100's of rental properties which were rented through major tour operators throughout Europe. They don't get pushed around by anyone. We have a good abogado, who provides model contracts to keep us on the right side of the Hacienda and Tourist Authority and regular discussion about changes of the law and shifting of the economy.

Homefinder

Auction House SL · 07-05-2007, 06:54 PM

Homefinder - there is an area of Spanish Law that works very efficiently....TRAFICO, just try using your fog lights in a dust storm and itÂ´ll cost you €90. Apparently because you can only use them in real fog!!!

You could transgress a white line, or not indicate on a roundabout for the first time in your 30 year driving career. Now if they could only take that exhuberance across to their criminal law courts we would have no-need for Trevor MacDonald

Colin S · 07-05-2007, 07:30 PM

Auction

I understand fully what you are saying about the overpriced property but around this area word spreads quickly if someone doesnâ€™t like what you say and if you tell them their property is too much money and you donÂ´t want to market it because of this, word does spread and a very quick rate of knots, I know as I have actually seen an Estate Agent who thought he was the dogs danglies and did just this (although he was rude with it) and he didnâ€™t last very long, he thought he was being big and clever but in the end it came back and bit him on the bum.

IÂ´m not defending overpricing in anyway. As I say, we ALWAYS give our own valuation and it is always lower than what the vendors were expecting. As you say yourself, you turn down 20-30 (I think thatâ€™s what you said) per month when most of those could be on your books.

One of the arts here in Spain (and this is where it is so different to the U.K) is to explain why you have valued their property lower than they expect, citing market conditions, competition blah blah and even take similar property details with you to prove the competition (although not a good idea if you are en environmentalist). You will find that if explained properly they will mostly agree with you and you have already sown the seed in their mind of what they can realistically expect for their property............one month later and hey presto, either you call them to give them an update which wonâ€™t be favourable or they call you to reduce.

Seriously, you should try it, although you have to be able to explain your valuation in a nice but forceful way and see what happens and you will be pleasantly surprised.

Just one example of that happened last week in our Gandia office, we took the property on advising them that their own idea of price was 100k over the top and that was around 3 weeks ago, last week they called and dropped it 50k, 2 days later the phoned and dropped it another 50K. People are really aware of the current market and are willing to listen to those willing to give them the time to explain just why their property is overvalued.

Auction House SL · 07-06-2007, 10:36 AM

Hi Colin,

For sure your principles and diplomacy are a credit to you and your company. I do explain my reasons for valuation to the prospective vendors and never really let them go in that much of a huff!

However, most of the time, I hope they donÂ´t come back and put it on at my price because there is an absolute glut of property on the market in my area Los Alcazares, Puerto de Mazarron and inland from there. ItÂ´s all very samey, and as you know going out and photographing a property, copying 20 page title deeds, loading onto data base, putting in windows of several showrooms, uploading to website blah, blah blah, is so time consumung. When in reality I only want 2 or 3 of a kind in that area. If I take on too many (say over a hundred or so) then I cannot do justice to the ones I already have. As you know buyers are few and far between at present.

We could be awash with 3/2 Villas and 2/2 apartments, and as you rightly say in earlier posts, we just do all the work on a property to market it and the vendor wanders in and says it is sold, Agghhhh!!!

I like the vendor who agrees with my valuations and also only use 1 or 2 other agents. I like them to carry my sale boards and I even give them 3 or 4 spec sheets in-case a passing buyer knocks on their door. You can tell the vendors who will refer those people back to you instead of ringing you later and saying they have done a private deal.

So in summary, I am not short of properties, and like to keep a balanced and streamline selection. Add to that I like loyal vendors who will not go behing my back.

In effect I see nothing wrong with your complete service to all vendors, in fact itÂ´s comendable, I just prefer to keep things lean in these hard times and reduce my carbon footprint regards fuel and paper etc. That way when things pick up a little (if) then I may need extra properties, but even then I could always bring my clients to you and others if I donÂ´t have what the clients want.

You put you case very convincingly Colin I have to say, you sound just like me 7 years ago!

Colin S · 07-06-2007, 02:02 PM

Hi Auction

when I first came to Spain (4 years ago) I worked on a similar basis to that as I did in the U.K. but quickly learned that the market here is a completely different kettle of fish. For a starter, the amount of property available for sale is absolutely incredible and certainly one thing I never bargained for and in all honesty it was a shock to the system in the way the whole real estate business works here.

I soon decided that I would have to adapt to the difference in the markets and what I do here I would never have done in the U.K. Infact, the way you work is exactly how I worked in the U.K. fewer, quality properties at the right price in selected areas on a sole agency basis and ItÂ´s great to see that someone here has made that work but, IÂ´m a firm believer in adapting to market conditions and trends which is why I changed tact to working the way I do now.

If you can make it work then I think thats great, it would certainly make my life easier if I were to make that system work but alas, for this particular area I donÂ´t think thatÂ´s possible

We all have our own ways of working and I doubt any one of us works in the same way which makes itÂ´s really interesting to hear other peoples experiences and work ethics.

Keep it up and let me know how you get on, you never know, with the market constantly changing the way it is I may start going back to my old ways